If you were in charge of your country...

Barbaric? Not at all. I'm intrigued by your ideas and argument. I see similarities to the way I view things, although I guess it's understandable to make that statement in the first place - I often have people claiming my ideals are 'harsh' or 'absurdly strict' which is why I'm often wary to present my true ideas, especially to anyone my own age. The majority of kids in my college are dependent on state benefits of some sort so..Yeah. Figures.

If anything, I would actually run my country using pretty 'Victorian' guidelines, according to some views. I was brought up in a strict manner, as was my immediate family, and it's done me/us nothing but good. I reckon a tightly run country would benefit just as well. (One of the reasons I created this thread was to gain an insight into everyone's own experiences. I figured most people would probably be influenced by their own upbringings and experiences when responding to this topic. Curiosity.)

The argument about our current government going back to 'Victorian' politics has recently come up - The issue of the 'deserving and undeserving' poor. Hehe..Interesting, interesting..People in this country have all the opportunities you would ever need to have a good life and yet they squander them and choose to have children at ridiculous ages..Would be no space for slackers like that in Envy's country. :pinch: I was given the opportunity to go to a private school, but with a dream of going into a career in law in mind, I chose to go to a state school for a no-holds-barred view of the world. Over 5 years I've seen substantial amounts of the girls in my years drop out due to having kids, from ages as young as 14 through to 18..

Kids..Through choice, at this age..It disgusts me, to be honest. The option of abortion is available in this country and yet girls choose to have children as a career option due to benefits. I've heard that statement being expressed explicitly by some girls who have gone on to become 'mothers'.

:woohoo: The thought of sterilisation as a solution to stopping mass amounts of children comes to mind - I know 3 people who have over 10 siblings and are dependent on benefits as a consequence..But I reckon that idea will be unpopular with the guys, so I shan't propose that just yet! (I have to water it down and make it sound like rainbows and lollypops first, like a 'real politician') :whistle:

knumpcy wrote:

The Native Americans did it quite well in this country before the greedy Europeans took over this country(it is called the Barter System), and there are enough resources in the US to sustain itself, America chooses to use the resources of other countries as not to deplete its own and hire cheap labor abroad as well. As for the Controlled substances I am referring to Cannabis, coca, and other forms that other countries and individuals are profiting from.

There aren't enough resources to sustain it. Production factors are nature, capital, labour and time. America may have natural resources, which in some parts are heavily \"injured\" by practising mono-cultures (which won't work in a barter system). You need people who will work. That is also one reason why America takes people from abroad, no one is willing to do heavy physical labour therefore immigration is welcomed, and there is always a demand for educated staff...

Referring to the drugs, only criminals are profiting from it, not other countries, so it's more of a matter of the efficiency of your law enforcement and jurisdiction how much your country loses in that matter.

Also, a barter system would mean that you would cut your country off from the whole world (if the world doesn't want to go back there with you). So that would mean no travel because you can't come into example France and try to exchange a duck for 3 kilos of croissant.
The whole range of technology would also be useless, because if you have a barter system that means that every family has to work in agriculture or some trade to have something to barter with.
Example, you produce ducks and you need cotton, but the man that produces cotton doesn't need duck, so you will lose a lot of time till you get your cotton by exchanging your ducks. In the mean time that you were trying to exchange your ducks, you weren't home and a pack of fox ate all the ducks that you had home...

Regarding children, you will need lots of them if you want to go back to basics with agriculture and a barter system... (who will work in such a country if you cut it off from the world?)

Considering slackers, you want that everyone works? Easy, pass a law about it. (Btw. we had that in the East Block, it nicely backfires in your face.)

Marx's ideas about communism would fit in nicely with the whole idea of a self-sustaining country, nobody needing more then necessary etc.
Oh, history, how did that end up? Yeah, right, people are \"wolfs\" so we had 5-year plans in which it was calculated that for example a person needs 2 pairs of shoes per year etc. etc. we need n-number of shoes produced and in the end you have that n-number of shoes but all are size 9... I won't go into much detail here about 5-year plans and other communist economy tactics, because I have better stuff to do then give history lessons.

Also, in such a self-sustaining system, there is not only none sense in technology but also none in clothing diversity and other luxury, so bye bye goths...

knumpcy wrote:

a simple look into pasts brilliance may give you better light...Remember that what you are learning today is dictated to you and is controlled...Challenge at every stage of your existence and know right from wrong. The leaders of today are apart of the same ones from the last(1900's) century that have planned their control out well..Without freewill you are mute and I do not recognize you...Good Day!

Oh, pardon me, again, who did you say you were?

The idea really does make me think of Volksgemeinschaft. Little farming communities (as that's the only way I can see it really working)..Like a little utopia..No diversity like goths etc., but in this hypothetical creation, maybe life like that would be satisfying despite the lack of apparent choice.

If you were brought up that way, you would know nothing better. The simplicities in life can sometimes be the most rewarding - but maybe that's just my view at the moment as I do long to be out of this system right now due to exams and all of that.. :pinch:

knumpcy wrote:

I may seem barbaric in so many manners but the ways of the new is not the way to be, a simple look into pasts brilliance may give you better light...Remember that what you are learning today is dictated to you and is controlled...Challenge at every stage of your existence and know right from wrong. The leaders of today are apart of the same ones from the last(1900's) century that have planned their control out well..Without freewill you are mute and I do not recognize you...Good Day!

Okay, I've got to call you out on this...

How exactly did you learn about the past? I guess you learned it from another in some form because you will not have been around to experience it. Interesting, isn't it?

Envy wrote:

The idea really does make me think of Volksgemeinschaft. Little farming communities (as that's the only way I can see it really working)..Like a little utopia..No diversity like goths etc., but in this hypothetical creation, maybe life like that would be satisfying despite the lack of apparent choice.

If you were brought up that way, you would know nothing better. The simplicities in life can sometimes be the most rewarding - but maybe that's just my view at the moment as I do long to be out of this system right now due to exams and all of that.. :pinch:

The movie The Village comes to mind...
If you didn't know any better, then maybe you would be satisfied, but to reach that ignorance, someone would have to know and that \"one\" would have to enforce such ignorance. That would mean burning books, heavy control on country borders etc.
One thing is theory, the other thing is how to turn it into practice.
It's hard to kill a humans curiosity...

black_magnolia wrote:

It's hard to kill a humans curiosity...

True, but curiosity is what keeps me alive and asking questions! Sparking a debate makes me nothing but happy, because it makes me think of other viewpoints and all sorts! All of the 'but's and 'what if..'s..Curiosities frustrate me so, but they keep me content and always pondering. Keeps my mind away from the more sinister thoughts.

I haven't seen 'The Village' (as far as I'm aware) but my mind had wandered off from the hypothetical creation of this barter economy in a single country. I had imagined it as 'the world' being this farming-community-utopia (my interpretation of how the idea would work), so country borders hadn't come to mind, but I guess what you said is true in that case.

Hmm..As far as Knumpcy's idea goes, it doesn't make me immediately think of communism. I actually think of syndicalism..But the finer details may make that proposal a bit silly, as syndicalism relies on collectivised labour unions..

Something similar could be used in a barter economy maybe..In my mind, it'd be *like* labour unionism but..More like..The Native American tribalism.

I do sort-of see how these ideas link together, with the reference to Native Americans earlier. Maybe it would work in a smaller country..But..America is so large and with so many more people now as opposed to when there were just Native Americans. It's an intriguing thought. I shall be pondering over it all night now.